>> thank you. >> i'm in for shepard smith itch have one more show to do tomorrow morning from 9 to 11. that's it for "studio b." >> good luck, rick, we'll miss you. in the meantime, of live branch snapped. rand paul snubbed. beer summit, off, and all started here. >> neil: welcome. this is "your world." moments from marco rubio here to weigh in on the republican, i guess you can call it, brouhaha captivating the nation and first foaming here. >> we have to patch things up. if we can sit down, i'm inviting him for a beer, anytime he would like to come down and sit down at the pub around the corner from the senate. >> neil: have you heard anything on the invite? >> excuse me? >> neil: heard anything?

>> hasn't been normalized. i just -- formalized it. >> neil: what a difference a day makes. 4 hours after my chat with rand ball went viral the beer summit went dead. >> it was never about senator paul. until senator paul tried to make it about me and made it personal. >> he suggested maybe the two of you sit down and have a beer. >> i'm running for reelex in new jersey. i don't have time for that at the moment. >> well, on blogs and news shows and newspapers everybody of an open rift in the grand old party between traditional republicans, big on defense, and nighting terror, i.e. governor christie, and those who argue not if that fight compromises our privacy. now to the man many argue is uncomfortably caught in the middle of this party food fight.

marco rubio, who, like those other two gentlemen, is often mentioned as a potential presidential candidate himself. so, senator, i quickly inserted you in thissing -- this little fight. what do you make of it? much ado about nothing or does the party have a problem? >> it's an interesting dynamic that's playing out and i'll let them figure that out. it's an important debate. the answer to the question is, we have to do both. we have to protect not just privacy rights but privacy expectations and i understand -- we have a government that is targeting people, irs is targeting americans. of course americans are concerned how the government is going to use information it has about them. but we know these programs are essential and important because they have been able to thwart attackness the past. so it's a very significant issue. how do we prevent terrorist attacks in the future? we know that terrorist use

technology to coordinate, and if osama bin laden was calling someone in the united states, we n't his stockbroker.hat because people need to know that the government is not going to gary all this information on them and one day in the future use it against them or have it leaked. this is a legitimate issue, and balancing those is not easy, and i think what we're struggling with as a country, how to protect americans and also protect their individual liberties and private expectations. it's not a trivial issue. >> neil: looks like republican are having a hard time reconciling those two extremes to hear senator paul tell it, if we're getting these constant reports out of the nsa that it went beyond just collecting over 115 million american phone records, to the latest news that is was every e-mail, every site

folks went on so much information, so fast, they really couldn't even hold it that long because it was too massive to hold. that does raise the kind of concerns that senator paul has had, that chris christie seems to dismiss. >> but first of all, of course, we always need to be reviewing the scope of what the government is doing and whether it's justified, and that should be constant he reviewed. the problem is that the tactics the government uses to gather intelligence, the more public it is, eeasier for enemies to esaid it. so it's difficult to have an open debate. and there's so much misinformation in the press. i wouldn't dismiss these concerns offhand. if you're back home and you all of a sudden realize the government has the capable and is gathering information on every phone call made in america, you're concerned how that could be used not just by the government but by individuals working for the government, and by somebody who all of a sudden may decide to politically target people. that's a legitimate concern. so, again, i'm not -- i don't

think we should trivialize the debate beyond the personalities involved. it's a very significant balancing act. these are important programs. we have to be able to do some of this and figure out how to do it in a way that americans have more conversation, and a lot of that starts by leadership. when you have reports that the irs targeted americans that undermines the confidence. >> neil: up sos like you're slightly more to the side of the libertarian thinking on this. protect us bus not at the expense of going too far. >> i think we have to be able to do both. >> neil: i understand that. the reason why i even mention it is that there's been some shifting on your part, or so it would appear, on a couple of key issues, from immigration reform to obamacare and maybe defunding it, that are closer in line with the libertarian point of view esupposed by senators lee and cruz and others who argue that in the case of obamacare, just

defund it. that's something you hadn't been talking about months ago but now are leading an uphill fight to make happen. >> i campaigned on repealing obamacare, and we're know on -- we all hoped the supreme court would throw it out or an election would have elected a republican president. that didn't happen. >> neil: even senator cruz says this is unlikely to happen. >> what. >> neil: this defunding effort. >> it is, but i think we can still win it? frankly, what other choice do we have but to fight? the republicans and conservatives are not going to draw a line in the sand, we're not willing to say this is the issue we're willing to fight to the end on, what issue are we willing to fight on? a career -- a year ago when there was hopes of winning the election or hopes the supreme court would throw this out, that was a different time. but we realize this is it. the exchanges come up october 1st. the individual mandate is still

in play. americans are going to lose their existing coverage. people moved from fulltime work to parttime can care and after this september it's going to be harder to do about the law. >> neil: ifoff can't defund it you wasted your time. >> think we can defun it. we can definitely defund the exchanges which are already turning into a disaster. just moments ago i saw a news report the state of ohio is reporting the premiums are going up by 40% in my home state, a report two days ago from the insurance commissioner, the premiums going up 30 to 40%. reports last month that over 300,000 americans have been shifted from fulltime work to parttime work, every single day now. the arrest of obama -- the reality of obamacare is starting to hurt real people. >> you mention your state, and your governor, rick scott, made news by demanding that jesse jackson apologize to floridians for awful but calling them

racist, and saying that in light of the zimmerman verdict, that the state had been mischaracterized, and he really into dial it back. what do you think of that? >> i think jesse jackson has a long history of making outrageous comments and the only thing sadder is the fact that people still pay attention to some of them. what he says is outrageous and for people who live in florida or visited florida, you know how outrageous those comments are. but he has along history of saying those things to get noticed and to be relevant. i don't think we should pay much attention to it. >> neil: i want to go to immigration reform. part of the gang of eight to try to cobble together some sort of agreement. some of your colleagues in that group are scratching their heads over you seemingly switching positions. maybe you can clarify -- i just want to be clear.

says enforcement first and then deal with amnesty later. i think you had mentioned you were open to that, which would be very different than the measure you were putting together. >> well, first of all, let's clarify something. the senate bill did have enforcement first, before anybody could stay here permanent triple only thing i said what do we do with the people who are here illegally? we have to doesn't for them. if the house has a better way, i'd be open to hear it. i was asked, i would vote for a brill that only did border security in of course i would bore erred secure, irrespect tonight of illegal immigration, is a fundamental obligation of the ford government -- >> neil: i understand. the senate puts the to together, enforcement first, amnesty, whatever you want to call it, later. the house is saying, just do enforce; which -- enforcement, which the gang of eight saying, wait a minute, this changes everything. >> i don't think the house has

said anything. we haven't seen them produce any legislation. some house members said that but we should geoff the house space and time to figure it out some the only thing i said different from the other folks in the senate, if don't think we should march down to the house and saying, take up the senate bill or nothing at all. i've been saying we need to give the house the time, space, and respect they deserve to come up with their own ideas and solutions, and if people want a result, they really want a result and not a talking point, that's the approach they should take. >> senator, mean this with the greater respect you try to be the adult in the room and find the logical way to move forward, middle ground, but you're torn between the more consecutive elements of your party and the libertarians and people have likeened it to 1964 when the nelson rockefeller liberals and the bear goldwater conservatives. do you fear whatever side you're

on, that this is going to be a disaster for republicans? they can't get their act together. >> no. no. look, i think at the end of the day we're the progoing to party, the party of upward mobile and. these are new issues we're facing for the first time. terrorists didn't use cell phones 25 years ago. this is a new issue and it's difficult sometimes to balance the privacy expectations of americans with the reality that the federal government has a very significant obligation to provide for security. and so i think this is an important debate to health people bring strong feelings. i don't think we only have two choices. protecting americans from those who choose to harm them and protecting the privacy receive americans. >> john mccain sings your praises and said if he had a choice between rand paul and hillary clinton, he would have to think about it.

now, chuckling as he mentioned it, but it did maybe remind folks that this division i talk about is real, and that maybe it hurts you getting senator mccain liking you, because the view is he is part of the old guard. >> at the end of the day, the welcome -- i think we all need to stand for what we believe in, and the republican party is big enough but we need to be not just the opposition to barack obama and the left. we need to be the alternative that shows people how to grow the economy, get upward mobility and increase chances. >> these phony scandals the white house refers to, the irs, benghazi. what do you make of that? >> they're not phony scandals. benghazi, real people died as a result of negligence and perhaps even more, and in terms of the irs, don't knoll hough that is phoney.

these are individual groups who were targeted because of political views. that's the ultimate abuse of power. >> neil: just want to -- a record today, 50,628. the dow close to a 19, close to 20% surge on the year, which would be more than just a full market advance. look at what is going on with facebook shares today. earlier in the trading day, hitting 38 plus. that was its offering price before dipping back a little bit, but the bottom line is, for those investors who but no at the offering, fearing they would never make book, today they did. the stock had tumbled more than 60% then. that was then, this is now. face book is back, maybe with a vengeance. >> and remember when the media

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>> neil: detroit goes bust. michigan lawmakers needing to find ways to rev up cash. are unions pushing for a detroit bailout about to get their way? stewart, you argue that at least weapon it comes to pensioners they need help. >> absolutely. the city of detroit and the state of michigan made a commitment to workers years and years ago, that they would get a pension. many times they negotiated for higher pensions and less wages. and firefighters police officers need pensions like the rest of us do.

the average negligence detroit -- average pension in detroit is $19,000. hardly lavish. the pensions and i would argue we have to save detroit. >> neil: a lot of cities in line. i'm not blaming unions. a lot of inept imaginer -- managers that let his happened but unfunded high schools that can't -- unopportunitied liabilities. you have a host of other u.s. cities in arrears, a number of states on the brink. where do you draw the line? >> the problem in detroit is similar to other stays and that's a conscious effort to deindustrialize america. these are primarily industrial cities. and when we moved production offshore, we lost good-paying jobs -- >> neil: i understand that but it happened.

we can blame a lot of people. but it's done. now what do you do to correct that? >> and we lost two-thirds of the population. there's no enter prize in america that can do well,. >> neil: where is the money going to come from? >> we bailed out the banks. and those folks are doing better now than they've ever been. >> neil: bailed out the auto company. >> we gave them a bridge loan. so there has to be in combination of assistance to detroit. a restructuring of the debt, negotiations -- >> neil: if you have abruption filing and go through the orderly procedures of a bankruptcy filing -- i agree, sometimes life is unfair, as john f. kennedy often said, but the fact of the matter is you have pensions that were never able to be paid for -- >> and $19,000 a year pension? >> you know the $18 billion and the accrued costs and now you're

quite rightfully annoyed. mat or their government officials and union leader -- >> they're not annoyed. they're in danger of losing everything they happen. >> almost all the big companies that went bust because of similar obligations they couldn't pay. this is the wow life goes. i guess i ask you now, if the got doesn't come in what it wrong with a bankruptcy procedure where at least some pensions are saved, to the not at 100 cents on the dollar. >> that's a commit we made to those worker -- >> neil: we made many commitments to many people we couldn't honor because we overpromised and undercommitted. >> and many of those workers didn't pay which the city didn't pay into social secures. >> neil: then the american taxpayer -- future, listen, the american taxpayer is say why are

putting that on me? >> because this could -- because you could be there next time. >> neil: that's not an issue. we keep throwing good money after bad because there but by the grace of god good i. >> just like we did in iraq and afghanistan. we're now rebuilding in yawing and afghanistan and we can't bail out one of the greatest cities in america? the city that produced the war material -- >> neil: i understand the money is not there and other cities behind it. other states behind it, other companies behind it. >> well, there are. there are. that's -- you are right, there are other -- >> neil: i want to get you back. american express credit card, every purchase earns you 2% cash back, which is deposited in your fidelity account. is that it? actually... there's no annual fee and no limits on rewards.

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the snooping is spreading. first phone calls and e-mails. now a new report exposing how folks at nsa can track your evey move on line, from the social media to president browsing. this is so sweeping. they don't have enough terabytes to hold all the stuff. what's going on? >> we don't know what is going only. we're feeling the toenail, thanks to edward snowden. the only reason we're having this conversation. the obama administration didn't want to have it. the bush administration didn't want to. the director of national intelligence can just open my lie to congress without fearing any repuss -- reprisal and the more than americans are

concluding that our civil liberties are providing more of a threat -- pew research report showed more americans are worried about civil liberties being trounced in a war on terror than they are worried about getting blown up by a terrorist. >> let's leave it aside what people think of snowden. to the point of what he has revealed, this was far more than even the nsa originally said, and the nsa says we don't act on all of this stuff. we garth it. i doesn't stay on our computers. i'm paraphrasing here. so no need to worry. but we keep mining out more and more of this stuff. >> the obama administration is now selectively release something information. post snowden leaks or disclosures where say, we use

excessive reviews so you should trust us. the founders operated in a country that was much more imperiled than we are today and they concluded in the fourth amendment that american citizens should be protected from unreasonable search and seizure. >> neil: where do you draw the line? senator marco rubio about where the republicans are drawing the line, tough or terror, and then snooping on us. >> those are all with great respect towards you but those are all bumper stickers. can we get beyond bumper sticker politics in. >> neil: which is the bumper sticker? >> tough on terror, tough on such liberties -- >> neil: where do you err on the side of in that's the balancing act. >> i err on the side of the constitution and the 9/11 report that says we create our own sense of vulnerability by overclassifying things. that is part of the problem.

if you follow the constitution on questions of privacy and security, i think you get to a place where actually oversight is helpful. it prevents us from having these agencies that act without check and, therefore, according to everything we know about human nature, power can corrupt in the absence of sunlight and oversight. so we need to start unspooling that problem we have had since 9/11. >> matt, always good seeing you. thank you. >> thank you, neil. >> now to the man who started this fuss or brought our attention to this fuss and apparently proving well worth the fuss for russia because vladimir putin granting ed snowden asylum which could lead to permanent problems in our relationship. >> casey, you had a number of interesting ideas in a kole bum

about maybe we should snub them at their own meeting. >> president putin has a big ego and a lot invested on two big upcoming meetings, one is the g-20 meeting in september and the ice the winter olympics. >> would you do to that meeting? >> i would not go to the one-on-one presummit meeting that president obama is supposed to have with putin. i would definitely not go with that. that's in moscow. that's where snowden it. try to organize a boycott of other countries but chances are other countries won't go along with it but at a minimum the united states should boycott the meeting, the one-on-one. >> the other idea you had, if they're going to play fire with our dissidents, play fire with theirs. maybe do some nice things for a russian dissident. >> we just offered a chinese blind dissident a place at new york university. it's time to offer the same kind of deal for the russian dissidents. one is in jail but we should say

we're going to give him a great fellowship, and we should also leaking leaking the think tank reports saying the russian energy sector is in trouble. >> that would really cut to the core here. russian economy is booming because of energy and now there is growing talk that is at best short-lived put you would -- >> there are already two very welsh -- well respected think tanks saying the russian energy is in trouble. and the russians need foreign investment and american western technology to develop new oil fields. make it clear that won't be forthcoming. if russia doesn't have oil at $80 a barrel they're in real trouble because that's their only export. who buys russian cars? the other thing the united

states could do is we're going to build the keystone pipeline. sending shivers in the saudis, up their spine. how about spend something shivers up the russians' spines. >> a lot of good ideas. like a tony soprano. but, casey, always good having you. thanks. >> thank you. >> neil: really, tit-for-tat. nothing else seems to work. meanwhile, remember when the president said this? >> when obamacare is fully implemented, we're going to be in a position to show that costs are going down. all this is going to lower premiums. going to make health care more affordable. >> neil: not quite. forget jumping 20 or 30% in lots of states, wait until you hear what they're about to get hit with in georgia. talk about alter states. ♪

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checked colorado, we checked many other states and find out that the rates that are -- the jumps we're seeing in georgia are comparable to other states, and the reason that all of these premiums are going up is because of the mandates of the affordable care act, obamacare as you call it. preexisting conditions have to be covered. there's guaranteed issues. now there's a requirement that the oldest people cannot be charged more than three times what the youngest people are being charged for health insurance, on a comparable policy, and what is happening is all the rates are going up. they cannot cover these preexisting conditions and guaranteed issues without raising the rates. if -- >> neil: are they also dish understand that, sir. but the cynical view that many have who support the law is that, well, they're ramming

these increases through when they can bops once everything is in effect they can't. >> no. these rates coming are the ones that are filed to participate in the state exchanges. georgia does not have a state-based exchange. we're letting the federal facilitated exchange for the state of georgia, but these are the rates that are actuarial sound. in the state of georgia we had seven companies that onlily filed to do business in the state exchange in georgia, -- or the federal exchange in georgia. we sent them out to outside, independent actuary, which is a very, very high designation, and all of these reports, with the exception of one, came back saying that the rates were not excessive, that they were -- >> neil: nothing untoward going on here. here's what want to know. once the exchanges kick insuring everything else, and young people sign up in droves, young,

health people sign up, then all of this goes away because then the denominator changes, all of a sudden the pool of an applicants floods in and helps amortize all of this for want of a better expression, and all your fears and everything we have been sagos away. >> all right. that's not going to be the case. we have done -- there's been surveys done that young folks are not going to sign up. they'd rather pay the fine. right now the fine is $95 or 1% of your gross income. and they would rather pay that fine. there's guaranteed issue. so, if they get sick, then they can come and sign up for a policy because there's guaranteed issue and any sickness they have, because of the preexisting condition coverage, will be covered. >> neil: i think you're right on that. the one thing i saw was if you're going to have a fine, you have to be scaring the you know what out of people and they're

not idiots. they're saying, well, i'll pay the fine because in the end it's a lot weeper -- cheaper than playing for a pricey plan that when you're young, you think you're indestructible, figure you don't know, and they're shrewd up in to know they can walk into any emergency room and get health care so young people flooding in isn't going to happen. >> that's exactly right. we're getting everything pushed off. the large employer mandate has now been kicked back to 2015. i call on the president to exercise his authority, which he doesn't have under the law, but which he has taken, to get this individual mandate and push it back to 2015. >> neil: we'll watch very closely. these are eye-popping numbers. thank you for relaying them to us.

>> funding for the law down, way down, and take the whole thing down. that's next. 

>> neil: well, it is the law of the land but a group of runs are saying that does not mean there's any law we have to keep funding the darn thing. my next guest agrees. he was ahead of everyone on this. if we can't repeal the healthcare law, maybe we can choke it off, or at least choke off the funds that healthcare advocates say they'll need to fix this thing. to the heritage foundation president, former senator with us right now. senator, always good to have you. i was raising this with senator rubio earlier, sir, and again, with the greatest respect, might be a worthy goal for some

like-minded senators, but its herculean task, and what does this cause? >> neil, it guess to be back. it's good to be with you. over half of americans think we should stop obamacare. it's unfair. it's unpopular. it's unworkable. and so this is not just a political or republican exercise, a lot of americans want to be represented in washington, and they want us to stop obamacare. and so the strategy here is -- the president has already agreed he needs to delay the bill. what we're saying is to stop it. the best way in the short term is just not to fund it as part of government funding this year. this is not any attempt to shut the government down. in fact, we at heritage believe the government should be fully

funded and shouldn't have a fight over government shutdown, but -- >> neil: senator rubio said that -- if it came to that, even though he went want to depend on republicans -- it would be the democrats pushing to continue funding health care that would lead to that shutdown of that republicans don't want but they don't want this healthcare thing more. >> you're right, and the democrats and the president will probably threaten the government shutdown over the debt ceiling and the funding of the government. so, this is a strategy they're going to use because it's a way to frighten americans and they think frighten republicans. as we travel around the country in august -- i've been invited by heritage action to go to numerous, dozens of cities, to speak to people all over the country, who want to stop obamacare, and that's what we're going to talk about. it's realistic goal and it's important we do it. this is going to hurt our

country, people in ohio today found out their premiums are going up $100, emergency schools announcing they won't have coaches and aides so they can put them on parttime. we're going to see the problems this bill is going to cause. >> neil: could you have envisioned the crowning achievement of this president in his first term -- say what you will, agree or disagree, very consequential first term president, and all is coming apart. i've never seen a major piece of legislation enacted into law that has unraveled so quickly. >> well, neil, probably never seen a major piece of legislation that was totally partisan. not one republican support evidence it. that is unprecedented with major legislation. even in this very negative contentious environment here. so the president pushed this down the throats of not just

republicans but the american people and more and more people are going to resented it as they lose their health insurance. >> if you were back there in that august body and the administration says if we keep pushing this defunding health care, they're going to take this to the brink and shut the government down, what would you do? >> well, the stakes are high enough that we need to stop obamacare. if the president chooses to take the tact of shutting down the government. >> neil: he would blame you. >> americans are smart enough to see that he is shutting the government down to keep obamacare going. we could make the case, if i were still in the senate and will certainly try to do it on the outside, that the whole point here is to stop a devastating new national takeover of health care. americans want us to do and it i think certainly here at heritage, that's our intent to do everything we can to stop it.

>> neil: senator, thank you very much for joining us. jim dimint in washington. in the meantime, is a-rod about to get a-ream. i want you to meet a former big league pitcher who says what's the big deal about plug there are performance-enhancing drugs. don't ban them, promote them. forget about banning alex rodriguez and is it legal? these ladies are ready to play ball and answer that after this. weigh you down?

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banned for life over something alex rodriguez may have never done, at least he has

not admitted to such associating with a performance enhancing drug clinic. that has not stopped the star from trying to craft some soft of a deal with major league baseball commissioner who said accept my suspension or you are out of baseball for good, a-rod. can he do that? can bud bust a-rod forever? >> yes, he can. it is pursuant to article 11 of the collective bargaining agreement. he can invoke his power to take action against any player who compromises the integrity of the sport. >> even if there is no proof, it is alleged or whatever, doesn't everybody have due process? >> i don't think he would take such a hard position if there

wasn't a mountain of proof. according to investigators there is proof of him using the drug and tampering with the witnesses. >> that is where he and 40 or 50 other players are looking at the same sort of suspension but it is rodriguez may be given the status of the richest baseball player that gets the focus. no matter what awful things you say about me that i don't have some outlet to protest and appeal. >> that is the problem. i think the commissioner here is looking for blood, unfortunately. and they are using that clause in the collective bargaining agreement to circumvent his due process rights. he should have a right to appeal it and play. >> where do the rules of the club, not to paraphrase this incorrectly of baseball, the

club supersede the rules of just american law and justice? >> you have to look at any agency there is administrative procedure and then the law according to the federal laws and state laws. within every agency they can do whatever process they have but there is always some bigger and i guess stricter policy that the agency's leaders can use to say i'm not going to go through this grievance process. we are going to go based on this agreement. >> court cases and appeals indicated that? in other words, an organization stops on you that's upheld? >> i think there are two ways that you can deal with this because there is the administrative process and the legal process but here once you sign a contract and there are rules and regulations regarding that contract and the grievance process should be followed. i don't think they should be able to go over that process or what is in your contract in order to terminate you.

i think they should follow the letter of the contract as opposed to pressuring a-rod to do something that is not what he signed off on. >> what will happen with this type of case is if he gets what he wants it will go into a courtroom and then the league has the risk of having this whole collective bargaining agreement thrown out. they may look at the constitutionality of it. >> i was reading my contract here at fox. i just found out what the other anchors are paid. i'm so ticked. in the contract there is a good conduct clause. i can't act like an inbusl in public. in other words, that is a fireable event because i have

dismerged the organization where i work. i guess i can appeal that legally but i'm toast regardless. >> there is always a grievance process. that is why you need a good contract. >> i should have talked to you. >> most people don't read every line. >> i think that is the problem, too, you sign the contract and you know you can be fired but you should have an opportunity to be able to present your evidence to have a determination. >> knows he is guilty of sin but he wants a year fine and get back. by then he will be 88 years old. >> i don't think he knows he is guilty. it is only circumstantial evidence here even though some say he paid to have the evidence destroyed. he is going to make a lot of

money either way. >> great country. at least he gets paid. >> i think he knows. >> i should have looked into that myself. a lot more on this on fox business tonight. we will explore all of the business ramifications of this. [ male announcer ] these days, a small business can save by sharing.

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it's 5:00 in new york city and this is "the five"." obama care exchanges will open for business two months from today and the administration is scrambling even though the bill was signed into law over 40 months ago. nobody seems to want a part of the bill including people in his own administration. today the head of the irs dedicated to much of the oversight said he doesn't want to participate.